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Xerxes Break
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PostSubject: Chapter 69   Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:10 pm

wow am surpirsed no one has made a topic yet

any ways the raws are out on live journal

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Alice Baskerville

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PostSubject: Re: Chapter 69   Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:25 pm

The last chapter to me, wasn't all that exciting. Eh.
But this chapter.. is gonna be a twist. Can't wait to see it when I get home.


Last edited by Alice the B-Rabbit on Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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Reim Lunettes

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PostSubject: Re: Chapter 69   Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:33 am

A couple of thought provoking things I found in this chapter:
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter 69   Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:10 am

Alice the B-Rabbit wrote:

But this chapter.. is gonna be a twist. Can wait to see it when I get home.

Twisted indeed. After reading that I felt kind of surprised, (of coarse not as surprised after reading Retrace 65), at what Glen did...

But before I get in something that others haven't read, I must comment... that I loved the cover art. Was gushing over it for minutes before digging in to the new chapter. Okay, I'll stop rambling.

I wonder what everyone else thought of this new chapter.
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter 69   Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:44 am

Scanlation for chapter 69's out by Fallen Syndicate Very Happy
http://fallensyndicate.com/forum/index.php/topic,760.msg7006.html#msg7006

This chapter is one of the best but saddest yet. I feel sad for both Lacie and Jack. Lacie however doesn't mind getting dragged to the Abyss since she doesn't care at all, as long as it satisfies her (what a sadist/masochist, that's why I like her XD)

Glen (real name Revis (yes that's how we translated it from FS)) is the father of Alice and Alyss. I'm not really surprised. =))

Lastly, that smile Jack had at the second to the last page. Either he is really happy that Lacie had two daughters, or it's just a cover-up of his anger/true feelings towards Glen for dragging Lacie down the Abyss (even though Jack already knew from the start).

I'm guessing the second anyway~ I WILL really be surprised if he did not get angry about it.
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter 69   Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:53 am

Yes I want to know more about Jack's wish...to join with Glen and bring Lacie back? Is that truly his wish, or just a cover up? And how might it relate to what happened later between them?
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter 69   Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:40 am

*is back* XD

Awesome chapter! It was really great to see Jack and Glen's (Oswald) reactions to Lacie's death.

Starting with Glen, there was such a sudden contrast between the sentimental eye contact he had with Lacie one moment, and the violent explosion of chains that engulfed her the next moment. It's so horrifying to watch a loved one be ripped away from you like that - and exponentially more so when you believe it's your fault and when you have to carry it out yourself. Poor traumatized Glen, trying so hard to be stoic! It's nice that Jack and Glen can bond over their mutual loss of Lacie.

And Jack... it was interesting to see him become utterly non-functional like that. He didn't even bother to have a braid (that's how you know shit just got real!). Very cute how he didn't speak up when he knew Lacie was lying to him. I've long anticipated Lacie giving birth to the Alices in the Abyss, so what I found the most shocking about this chapter is how bluntly Glen told Jack what happened to Lacie, that he was the one responsible, and how Jack doesn't seem to bear him ill will over it (Revis' explanation probably helped). And then again how bluntly Revis told Jack that he impregnated Lacie.

Also, Lottie was frikken adorable!!

But speaking of Revis, he said several things that might be relatable to Break. First, the red-eyed children being born related to a Glen. Well, that explains Vincent, since Gil was meant to be the next Glen. So what about Break? Could he have been born related to someone who became a Baskerville that would've qualified to become the next Glen if Glen's soul wasn't in limbo?

Furthermore, the way Glen's body is deteriorating reminds me of Break's. Rufus mentioned that one reason for Break's deterioration was because it's his "second time." Well, Break had 2 chains, but the Glens have 5! Being saturated with so much Abyss power probably takes its toll on the body. Vincent is a 2nd contractor too, so would his body also deteriorate? However, I don't think that's quite it. I think it has to do with Break's blood.

The red-eyed children are better able to access the Core/WotA. Back when Kevin got dragged into the Abyss, I had assumed that Alyss brought him to her room herself because she wanted his eyes. But could Kevin have (also) fallen through to the Core on his own, the same way that Lacie did? In fact, the same way that Vincent did?? It's said in Break's flashback that virtually nobody reaches the Core upon the completion of their contract, yet these two red-eyed children did, and Alyss didn't even want Vincent there!

It's very interesting that the Will had a personality even before incarnating in a human vessel.

Back to Jack... it seems the only thing that was able to bring him out his numbness was Revis giving him hope - through Alice, and through the possibility of his wish to reunite with Lacie to be granted. When I read that, I entertained the idea that maybe he's just getting close to Alice in order to use her to bring Lacie back. I don't know, though. I hope it's not true, or at least not the only reason. Jack is very protective of Alice in the flashbacks we've seen, and even Vincent said that Jack got mortally wounded trying to save Alice from Glen. However, this could also be explained by Glen realizing that messing with such things is a bad idea, and wanted to destroy human access to the power of the Core (ie: Alice). But the Baskervilles also want to destroy the Will entirely, and possibly gain her power for themselves, so I'm sure there's more to the story.

Yes, there are many MANY mysteries left!
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Reim Lunettes

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PostSubject: Re: Chapter 69   Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:16 am

I thought Jack looked different in that scene, and somehow didn't notice it was because he was missing his braid, until you pointed it out, RedEyedGhost!

Yeah I also suspect there's more to Break's past that we don't yet know and wouldn't be at all surprised if he turned out to be related to some Glen or another...maybe even, Revis, somehow.

Did you notice that the words Glen says to Lacie "With this chain of judgement, I hereby sentence you." Sounded similar to what was said to Oz at the beginning? I wonder what to make of it.

I also was surprised that Jack just took what Revis told him about getting Lacie pregnant without flinching. Jack and Oz really are alike in that way...they just take what comes and accept it.

This whole notion of Jack being permitted to "use" Alice to fulfill his wish...it makes me see events of the past in a new light. What if he killed Alice, cast her into Abyss to have her become a chain, then somehow was behind getting Oz cast into Abyss knowing he would end up forming a contract with her? How did Jack know he could eventually take over control of B-Rabbit, like he did a few chapters back when he attacked Leo? I'm haven't fully thought it through yet, just "thinking aloud." Just what is B-Rabbit, anyway? It seems pretty clear that B-Rabbit used to be Lacie's chain(judging from the shadow of B-Rabbit in the background a few chapters back), so how did Alice end up becoming B-Rabbit if she is her daughter?

I have to admit I worry occasionally that Jun Mochizuki has got so many questions to answer and loose ends to tie up that we won't get a sensible explanation for all of it.

Also, if Leo is the new Glen, then who is the eyes of misfortune that may have been born near him?
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter 69   Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:32 am

Unless Revis is from the future or Break is from an even earlier past than we currently know, I think Revis is way too old to be related to Break. They wouldn't even alive in the same era. Even Gil would be too old given the known timeline.

I think the "Chains of Conviction" refers to Glen's 5 black-feathered chains, so when somebody is using one of Glen's chains to condemn somebody to the Abyss, they use that line. Zai was using Griffon.

I think B-Rabbit is separate from both Lacie and Alice. Lacie used Black Rabbit like a chain she contracted, she didn't transform into it like Alice does. But Alice also doesn't transform into B-Rabbit anymore, since much of B-Rabbit's power seemed to be passing into Oz as the contract progresses, leaving Alice more and more human. Since Lacie appears to have been a contractor of B-Rabbit back then, maybe the chain somehow got bound or fused onto her child in the chaos of the Abyss.
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter 69   Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:46 am

Well, we thought Alice couldn't have possibly been Lacie's child due to age and timing, but Jun figured out a way to explain that one away. I'm not saying for sure Break is related to Revis, just saying it is a possibility. And the fact that they didn't live in the same era doesn't negate the possibility in my eyes.

What you said about the chains of conviction makes sense. And maybe B-Rabbit really is a separate entity, but I certainly had the impression that Alice had been human, then been killed, was cast into Abyss and turned into a chain called B-Rabbit.
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter 69   Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:43 pm

Oh and another thing...what if little Vincent thought/knew that he would be sacrificed to Abyss when Gil was made Glen? Doesn't that shed some of his actions in a new light? He claimed to have been stopping the Raven ceremony "for Gil" but maybe he was just trying to save himself? Hard to say for sure, but that possibility popped into my head last night. Then I just reread a bit and found this. http://www.mangareader.net/pandora-hearts/61/34Vincent says to Duke Nightray: "You did it for your own self-interest! It's like looking in a mirror...so disgusting." I think this is evidence of a hint that Vincent does indeed prioritize his own self-interest, and loathes himself for it.
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter 69   Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:28 am

Whoa, this is.. My heart started pounding even clicking into the next page of it. I started crying. I don't know why. It was really interesting. Now this is the Jun Mochizuki I know. I don't understand one thing though. Why is the master of all Baskervilles, and leader of them, "Glen." I mean, is it short for something? That doesn't get into my brain very well. I mean, I know that its the state of level of which they have control of. I just don't understand why they just couldn't call them, "Levy-sama" or "Oswald-sama" not Glen. That makes no sense at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter 69   Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:53 am

Haha, Alice, you're right. I know it generally looks as if Jun Mochizuki-sensei had this whole thing planned from the beginning, but I sometimes wonder how much she is still making up things as she goes. She very well might have had Glen as Glen to start with, and then decided to mess with our heads by having Glen not really be Glen. I actually felt like this chapter kinda crumbled a bit in the realism department. I mean, I know it is a work of fantasy and fiction of course, but Alice showing up a fully grown girl just a few days after her Mama tumbled into Abyss seems like the cheapest trick since Reim used the hidden power of his chain to magically not really be dead. But I still adore Pandora Hearts anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter 69   Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:40 pm

"I impregnated Lacie. And Alice was born in the Abyss."
"An experiment to find a way to allow people to handle all the power of the Abyss."
"You see, Lacie was carrying twins. Only one of the children was thrown back in this world."


Well, plot is starting to have a well-defined, robust body. I love it when all lost threads start to come into a textile! XD It was such a touching, enlightening chapter! Ave, great Jun-sensei!!!

Poor Oswald/Glen… now we can finally understand his pain and why poor Alice had to be confined to that awful tower. But it wasn’t for a very long time, though, as Alice came back already looking like a little girl! In a month [It really was Abyss’s time-distortion, just like I had guessed! - Subject: Re: Retrace 67 Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:54 pm ] XD.

Now, about Jack using Alice so he can fulfill his wish: I would assume his wish is to reunite with Lacie but… Lacie died “for good”, she really did… right? I mean… how would he reunite with her if she… hum… disappeared? Do you think he wanted to be in Alyss/Alice’s “good graces” so he could ask them for some kind of time distortion that would reunite him with Lacie?!
Then, all the nicety, all the tenderness and protectiveness of Jack towards Alice… was it really all a lie?! Well, then all the hatred that Alyss directed to Oz when she first saw him trough the music-clock doesn’t surprise me… Poor girls, he was just using them and he didn’t get what he wanted… that’s probably why he is “helping” Oz now… he’s still trying to fulfill his wish.


Reim Lunettes wrote:
Oh and another thing...what if little Vincent thought/knew that he would be sacrificed to Abyss when Gil was made Glen? Doesn't that shed some of his actions in a new light? He claimed to have been stopping the Raven ceremony "for Gil" but maybe he was just trying to save himself? Hard to say for sure, but that possibility popped into my head last night. Then I just reread a bit and found this. http://www.mangareader.net/pandora-hearts/61/34Vincent says to Duke Nightray: "You did it for your own self-interest! It's like looking in a mirror...so disgusting." I think this is evidence of a hint that Vincent does indeed prioritize his own self-interest, and loathes himself for it.

Well spoted! I think you're right! XD
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter 69   Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:28 pm

Ahh. Okay. Another thing I don't understand.
So.. Jack is using Oz, to get to Lacie? Is that it?
But what about the Alices? Jack is very obessed with Lacie. Period.
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