| | Retrace 70 |  |
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+7Konpeito RedEyedGhost phkuro Itera Oz Vessalius Akkie LBrook9 11 posters |
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LBrook9
Posts : 145
Join date : 2011-07-16
Age : 27
Location : England
| | Subject: Retrace 70 Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:39 pm | |
| Please tell me if this shouldn't be up ^^' But I really needed to talk to someone about it! So....Retrace 70. What. The. Fudge. JUST HAPPENED!? =O My brain currently looks something like this: hdwlbhcbdsmhcmb. I don't know if anyone else has read the spoilers yet...but Oh my gosh. If Jun Mochizuki thought of this from, even halfway through or even 10 chapters ago, she's a GENIUS. I think I need to go back and read the entire manga again after this... - Spoiler:
http://pandorahearts.livejournal.com/712208.html#cutid1
Anyone else feel like me?EDIT: Raws *__* - Spoiler:
http://www.mediafire.com/?3dk0xzh3vh3ka4p
Last edited by LBrook9 on Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:29 pm; edited 2 times in total | |
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Akkie
Posts : 174
Join date : 2011-11-14
Age : 26
Location : Eastern part of the Abyss
| | Subject: Re: Retrace 70 Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:57 pm | |
| Do you remember Retrace II? When Doldum!Gilbert stabbed Oz? And remarked on his unusually non-human and tasty blood?- Spoiler:
At least...
At least Leo's still alive... ;w;
BUT
I CAN'T STOP WANTING TO SCREAM WITH GILLLLLLLLL ;A;
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Oz Vessalius
Pandora Mod
Posts : 2400
Join date : 2009-09-06
Age : 28
Location : California (USA)
| | Subject: Re: Retrace 70 Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:15 am | |
| ......My jaw literally dropped and I just stared at the screen for a few minutes. I'm still in a state of shock, my mouth agape from the extreme mindf*ckery I just experienced. I-I'm not really sure if I can even type. Still trying to process all of this in my jumbled brain. Jun planned this all along...? There should be a religion called Mochizuki-ism, because this woman must be god. - LBrook9 wrote:
- I think I need to go back and read the entire manga again after this...
Exactly my thoughts. Vol.1 is sitting right next to me, so I think I'll start now..... But before I do that, aeo5b3o5ao5 poor Oz! ;A; If it was possible to cuddle fictional characters, that's what I'd be doing. The effects of all this might not wear off for a few days. | |
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Itera
Posts : 496
Join date : 2011-06-26
Age : 27
Location : Pacific Northwest~
| | Subject: Re: Retrace 70 Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:46 am | |
| Ah. Re-reading the whole manga is a good choice. I think I may soon follow suit.
My brain hurts.
But I just read the spoilers/raws just a while ago and I still find myself rather shocked. I mean, wow. To think that it's evolved into such a story, and it's just so complex with so many twists and turns - I'm in awe of MochiJun. She's just so intelligent, and knows how to warp things so well, and trick us, and keep us enamored with the characters and story line. I agree with Oz. There SHOULD be a religion called Mochizuki-ism T_T
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phkuro
Posts : 8
Join date : 2011-09-24
| | Subject: Re: Retrace 70 Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:59 am | |
| wow. this is crazy.
were we hinted about these things before? my head is about to explode. | |
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Akkie
Posts : 174
Join date : 2011-11-14
Age : 26
Location : Eastern part of the Abyss
| | Subject: Re: Retrace 70 Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:07 pm | |
| - phkuro wrote:
- wow. this is crazy.
were we hinted about these things before? my head is about to explode. - Akkie wrote:
- Do you remember Retrace II?
When Doldum!Gilbert stabbed Oz?
And remarked on his unusually non-human and tasty blood? We also have various pictures with Oz holding black rabbits. Remember? I, too, swear to re-read the whole frikking manga once the series ends. Just when it ends because this is most definitely not the end of the mind foo. | |
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LBrook9
Posts : 145
Join date : 2011-07-16
Age : 27
Location : England
| | Subject: Re: Retrace 70 Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm | |
| Its totally crazy! D: I mean, the story was turned on its head after chapter 65 but now the head has grown legs and it's walking away! =O Jun Mochizuki is AMAZING! *__* - Spoiler:
I was so shocked by the rest of the chapter that I forgot to be happy that Leo is ok XD
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Akkie
Posts : 174
Join date : 2011-11-14
Age : 26
Location : Eastern part of the Abyss
| | Subject: Re: Retrace 70 Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:40 pm | |
| Translations are now out on LiveJournal! Along with news about the new novel, but who here says we should make a new topic about it? ... meh. -makes new topic anyway :3- Now, back in-topic. - Spoiler:
Oz has better recover from his BSOD (Seriously, with a truth like that, it wouldn't be surprising for him to get one) and counterattack Jack's argument with having spent a nice life in the first place, despite things...
... or something like that...
But yeah... Oz better get better from some BSOD...
... oh, yeah. I feel like a masochist for finding those few precious panels with Leo painful to look at, yet happy, because it's been a whiiiile... ;_; -oh well just look at that, now he's still alive-
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LBrook9
Posts : 145
Join date : 2011-07-16
Age : 27
Location : England
| | Subject: Re: Retrace 70 Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:46 pm | |
| -Runs away to find translations- - Spoiler:
whats BSOD? =O -being very stupid-
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Akkie
Posts : 174
Join date : 2011-11-14
Age : 26
Location : Eastern part of the Abyss
| | Subject: Re: Retrace 70 Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:43 am | |
| - Spoiler:
Blue Screen of Death.
I see somebody doesn't TV Tropes much~♪
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RedEyedGhost
Posts : 136
Join date : 2011-05-23
Location : the Abyss
| | Subject: Re: Retrace 70 Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:32 am | |
| - Spoiler:
It makes perfect sense that Oz = B-Rabbit. I mean, I figured that B-Rabbit was independent from both Alice and Lacie considering that Lacie contracted with B-Rabbit as a separate chain, Alice was originally human, and even after supposedly becoming B-Rabbit, the B-Rabbit power was being suspiciously siphoned away from Alice by Oz. It was just a matter of figuring out who/what B-Rabbit was, and this explains why its power was drawn to Oz - very anomalous expression of a chain's power.
Also, in retrospect, this explains why Oz has been associated with rabbit symbolism in Jun's art all this time. It's baffled me for so long - why he was depicted as brown rabbits and wearing hats with black rabbit ears. But the rabbit in Alice's dress is supposed to be Oz too? That's... weird... but okay. Others have pointed this out, too, that it was odd how Alice would appear in pictures as herself AND holding the "Alice rabbit" doll. But Oz appears with the "Alice rabbit" doll too. And there's this other light brown rabbit... *brain asplodes*
Aaanywhoo... in one flashback about Sablier (this + next page), there's a voiceover of "Stop it. I don't want to kill people!!" which I had assumed was Jack's (since it's being quoted and showing Jack) and had hypothesized was Jack possessed by something urging him to kill people. But, given chapter 70, there's a very good chance it was Oz saying that. Hrm (this could undermine my sense of Jack's conflicted feelings during the tragedy).
Jack is also treading on dangerous ground with my liking of him as a character. I had thought that the revelations in chapter 65 had given him depth, expanding him from a squeaky-clean hero to a more morally ambiguous figure who is plagued by genuine internal conflict. I really hope that is still the case. If I find out that his friendship with Glen isn't sincere, that there's no agonizing dilemma there between his loyalties to Glen and to Lacie, and that he's just using Glen (and Alice) to get to Lacie... then, the way I see it, he just traded in a shallow "hero" personality for a shallow "love-obsessed" personality, and didn't really gain complexity as a character.
Plus I don't like insincerity... I don't even know if I can call his devotion to Lacie sincere. I sympathize with it and understand how powerful it is and why, I get that he was a shell of a person and she was the only glimpse of light and hope in his life, but it's still primarily an infatuation with a girl he barely knows. Such single-minded obsession is hard for me to respect unless there's a believable foundation for it (ex: Vince's love for Gil). To me, such love is admirable only after it's been tested and perseveres against other heartfelt loyalties. I can respect Jack choosing Lacie over everything else if that was an actual choice he had to think about and make, and not if it was just his default position and everything else be damned.
What has me worried is the quote: "[Oswald] doesn’t know anything, doesn’t understand anything. And that’s precisely why, somewhere in his heart, he yearns for somebody to share with. Not with the Baskervilles whom he has to rule over, but with a friend such as myself – he’ll expose his weakness. I will enter from the cracks to look for information on the Abyss."
I still have hope for the sincerity of Jack's tears, though. And there's still so much we don't know about what exactly he (and Revis) was trying to do. What really was at stake? I would want to know everything he knew about the Abyss, the experiment, and Lacie's state of existence, as well as the potential consequences of Jack's, Revis' and Oswald's goals, before I know how I feel about it. I anticipate many more riveting twists to come. ^_^
Last edited by RedEyedGhost on Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:12 am; edited 1 time in total | |
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Konpeito
Posts : 456
Join date : 2010-11-20
Age : 28
Location : Washington (Where it never stops raining...)
| | Subject: Re: Retrace 70 Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:26 am | |
| - Spoiler:
I had always just asumed that Oz was a reincarnation of Jack or something along the lines of that, but for Oz to be A CHAIN?? B-Rabbit no less!! fdkebxisb. PLOT TWIST! How can MochiJun just play with our minds like that?!  (I bet she still has plenty of things she has up her selve too.  ) Atleast Leo is alive I had been wondering what was going to happen to him, but if Leo has Glen and the previous Glen's in him who's to say he's not a chain aswell? And what extactly are the Glen's anyway? And what about Alice isn't she B-Rabbit, if Oz really is B-Rabbit how did Alice become B-Rabbit? It seems each chapter where getting answers, but with each answer it brings more questions. 
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RedEyedGhost
Posts : 136
Join date : 2011-05-23
Location : the Abyss
| | Subject: Re: Retrace 70 Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:04 am | |
| - Spoiler:
So... if Oz was originally a rabbit doll... is he like the Velveteen Rabbit?  Buuut Lacie contracted with B-Rabbit before Alice was born and so before Alice got attached to the rabbit doll. So, unless Lacie's B-Rabbit and Alice's B-Rabbit are separate chains, and/or unless there's a time warp sending Alice's B-Rabbit to the past so that Lacie can contract with it, the entity B-Rabbit "Oz" existed before the rabbit doll. Unless, like, Lacie also had that rabbit doll and it was already B-Rabbit back then and... I give up until we know more. XD Aside from having influence over the flow of time, Alyss listed two other powers of the Abyss during Break's flashback: it can turn humans into chains, and it can grant will to those without life. Is Oz a result of the latter? Did Alice, a being with intimate access to the Core, pour so much love and attention into the rabbit doll who (in addition to Cheshire) kept her company during her lonely days in the tower that it gained a will of its own? It's not that much different from the animate dolls that live in Alyss' room in the Abyss. The "Alice doll" might share its symbolism between Alice and Oz now... but there's just so, so many rabbit dolls around... black ones, brown ones, light brown, white, etc. Alyss has many white rabbit dolls, but seems to prefer expressing herself only through one. Could the same be true of the black rabbits? Is only one of them Oz and/or Alice and the rest something else? And, if so, could there be multiple Black Rabbits, which would account for Lacie's B-Rabbit chain predating Alice and Oz?
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LBrook9
Posts : 145
Join date : 2011-07-16
Age : 27
Location : England
| | Subject: Re: Retrace 70 Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:40 pm | |
| - Spoiler:
Lol no, Im not much of a TV-troper XD
I was thinking about the idea that maybe when Sablier was plunged into the Abyss the soul of B-Rabbit and its powers became separated, Alice would have had quite a strong connection to the Abyss as she was born there, maybe the powers of B-Rabbit were attracted to this and latched on to her, supressing her human memories. (Although this doesn't really prove what Cheshire's bell was, but maybe that was just a physical representation? =O) Which could account for how she's getting them back on her own as 'Oz' takes back more of B-Rabbits' powers gradually releasing her memories? =/. And then maybe as the closest and easiest target for B-Rabbits soul, its soul went into Jack's body...or....something XD I dunno, I just really hope MochiJun explains soon or I'll explode! D:
One more thing. If Zai switched Oz and another baby at birth....where is the other child? Who are they? Maybe he never actually switched them, I wanna know about that as well! =O
AndcanIjustsay,poorAda
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phkuro
Posts : 8
Join date : 2011-09-24
| | Subject: Re: Retrace 70 Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:33 pm | |
| then...who's the white rabbit?
Oz is the brown rabbit , right? | |
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RedEyedGhost
Posts : 136
Join date : 2011-05-23
Location : the Abyss
| | Subject: Re: Retrace 70 Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:18 pm | |
| I think both Oz and Alice are the "Alice rabbit" at the moment. Oz is also the brown rabbit with the tie, and there's a light brown rabbit that is Alice.
The white rabbit has so far just been associated with Alyss. | |
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TwilightKat
Posts : 10
Join date : 2012-01-22
Age : 27
| | Subject: Re: Retrace 70 Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:53 am | |
| - Spoiler:
- Quote :
- I had always just asumed that Oz was a reincarnation of Jack or something along the lines of that, but for Oz to be A CHAIN?? B-Rabbit no less!! fdkebxisb. PLOT TWIST! How can MochiJun just play with our minds like that?!
(I bet she still has plenty of things she has up her selve too. ) I agree; Jun played us on again about Oz's origins and she likely still has alot more tricks up her sleaves. It sort of makes you wonder how the series will end...Now I'm really curious as to how Alice became B-rabbit There are so many possiblities; I mean for all we know Oz could still be B-rabbit and Alice is the contractor (since in retrospect we were never told if she had a seal on her) Or as RedEyeGhost mentioned they can both be B-rabbit, or perhapes the abyss can turn chains into humans (there are so many different theories!) I also hope Gil doesn't go out of his way to kill Oz now that he knows who his "true master is" ;A;
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Reim Lunettes
Posts : 223
Join date : 2010-10-20
Age : 55
Location : Washington state
| | Subject: Re: Retrace 70 Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:33 am | |
| @TwilightKat I was just going to say something similar about Gilbert and Oz. This page http://www.mangareader.net/pandora-hearts/70/17
gave me an idea of what could very well be a major climax...Gilbert is picking up his gun, and has remembered who his true master is. Now in order to protect his master properly this time, he's going to have to fight Oz/Jack in order to protect Leo/Glen. That is so, so sad, but just the sort of thing Jun Mochizuki might do in a future chapter. | |
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Reim Lunettes
Posts : 223
Join date : 2010-10-20
Age : 55
Location : Washington state
| | Subject: Re: Retrace 70 Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:37 am | |
| @RedEyedGhost I agree with your assessment of Jack's character. I do hope there is more to him than just foolish obsession with Lacie.
This whole idea of a stuffed animal coming to life makes me think of the power of the imagination. A lonely girl in a tower (Lacie, Alice] with few friends is going to be liable to have a pretty active imaginary life. I always felt that about The Will of Abyss and the chains, too, as if the chains were born out of her desperate need for companionship. Not sure where I'm going with that thought, but there it is. | |
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Lily Baskerville
Posts : 311
Join date : 2011-03-15
Age : 30
Location : Undefined :D
| | Subject: Re: Retrace 70 Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:41 am | |
| Remember that pilot chapter from volume 9? That's where one of the major hints were found regarding Oz's sin. And it also hints on Oz's real self as B-Rabbit, the Chain possessing the body with its own personality. The English scans are out btw~ And oh, I only stop by here for the new chapters though... XD My advice? Stay at pandora hearts tag on tumblr if you want fast spoilers for the next chapter during the 17th.  | |
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LBrook9
Posts : 145
Join date : 2011-07-16
Age : 27
Location : England
| | Subject: Re: Retrace 70 Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:41 pm | |
| I've seen the pilot from volume 8, but its apparantly continued in vol 9, but I havent read that =O
I think Im gonna have to get a tumblr account XD | |
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Reim Lunettes
Posts : 223
Join date : 2010-10-20
Age : 55
Location : Washington state
| | Subject: Re: Retrace 70 Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:20 pm | |
| @LBrook9 I have PH vol 9 in Japanese and there is no pilot continuation there FWIW. I think the English version of vol 9 is due at the end of March. | |
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LBrook9
Posts : 145
Join date : 2011-07-16
Age : 27
Location : England
| | Subject: Re: Retrace 70 Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:26 pm | |
| Ah, it said 'to be continued in Volume 9' and after what Lily said I guessed that referred to the one-shot as well *shrug*
End of March? Thats incredibly soon considering vol 8 was only released end of January =O | |
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Reim Lunettes
Posts : 223
Join date : 2010-10-20
Age : 55
Location : Washington state
| | Subject: Re: Retrace 70 Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:55 pm | |
| Right, they have speeded up the release to one every two months. You're right it does say at the end of the pilot in Vol 8 that it will be continued in vol 9. We'll see if it is! | |
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LBrook9
Posts : 145
Join date : 2011-07-16
Age : 27
Location : England
| | Subject: Re: Retrace 70 Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:28 pm | |
| Oooh. I wonder how long it'll take to come over to England XD
Yep! ^^ | |
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